This post is for PERIOD 4 FRESHMEN only.
There's an old saying, that "knowing is half the battle." The joke, of course, is, "What's the rest of the battle?" Fighting? Pain? Losing? Cats with laser beams?
Using this notion as a jumping-off point, address one of the following ideas in a thoughtful, thorough paragraph.
What 'battles' are being fought in Ellison's "Battle Royale"?
Who is likely to succeed in battle, and who is likely to fail?
Which battle is most worthy of being fought?
Which is least worthy?
We're not just speaking literally, here. We're speaking figuratively. Be sure to consider all the characters and conflicts: the narrator, his grandfather, the other contestants, the women, the men holding the event, the audience members. Consider the narrator's speech, his dream at the end, his hopes and worries. Consider that some conflicts are external, others internal. Consider that by the end of the story, some battles have been resolved while others have just begun.
Post your response in the comments section. Be sure to include your name so you can get credit. Remember, these are simply ideas - prompts to get you started. All I'm looking for, really, is some thoughtful, interesting discussion. Therefore, feel free to post additional comments in which you respond to your peers' comments. You might also consider checking back in to see if anyone has responded to your comments, so you can reply.
You can receive extra credit for each additional response.
Again, I'm looking for a discussion here, not simply a list of unconnected thoughts. So, make connections and claims, draw conclusions, provide evidence and explanations. I'll be checking in periodically.
In case you're interested, all of these paintings are by a guy named George Bellows, one of the 'Ashcan' artists.
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ReplyDeleteIn Battle Royale, it shows how prejudiced the white men were because they wanted the main character, a black, to lose to the whites.
ReplyDeleteDon't you think there's more to that though?
DeleteYes but the basic principal of the story is that.
DeleteI think you are right because in the story the white men and the white kids did not to loose to the black ones because it would be bad.This shows how much racism was a influence because even the kids didnt even like the blacks.
DeleteI don't really remember any kids being in the story
DeleteKyrus - Lose to what white men? He was fighting black kids in the battle royal. Explain what you mean here.
DeleteI thought all the other fighters were white because the white men only targeted that one black while if they were all black, they wouldn't care.
DeleteBy kids i mean the teenagers
DeleteBesides the obvious fight the boxers are having;the battle for racial equality is going on, too. The battle for equality is definitely one-hundred-percent worth fighting for; and it's much more worth fighting for than the fake coins the boxers were fighting for.
ReplyDeleteBut the boys did not know the coins were fake as they were fighting for them. So here's my question: To what degree can we separate racial equality from financial equality? Anyone?
DeleteIn Battle Royal, when the narrator was presenting his speech after the fighting, the white people were acting ignorant towards what he was saying which made it hard for the narrator to continue. After it all, the narrator still ended up getting the scholarship even though the white people were giving him a hard time. Does that mean the white people don't have as much power over black people than they think they do?
ReplyDeleteDo you think they realized they didn't have as much power over him?
DeleteYes because after the speech he presented, he ended up winning a scholarship. It was obvious that he was more educated than the white people making fun of him.
DeleteI think it is because the whites thought they were more important than all blacks because they thought the blacks were only slaves and nothing more. If they were anything other than slaves, they wouldn't believe it and still be ignorant and think they have all the power.
DeleteYeah and the narrator ending up being successful just proved that black people can achieve goals just as well as white people.
DeleteThat's true. I'm just not sure why they'd give him a hard time and then turn around and give him a scholarship. He deserves the scholarship; it just doesn't really make much sense.
DeleteYeah I agree, that's a little confusing to think about why they would change their mind....
DeleteTheir thought process^
DeleteI thought the prize was going to be given to him no matter what.
DeleteMaybe they realized that he has potential
DeleteWell, most of the whites DID listen to the speech, so why wouldn't they change their minds if they have solid evidence and reasoning right in front of them?
DeleteGood point. I think they gave him the scholarship to appear generous and kind, but no one really cared whether he became more educated or not.
DeleteWhy did their minds have to be changed in the first place if he was going to get the prize anyways?
DeleteOr maybe at first they thought he was just a stupid kid making a speech, but towards the end he pulled it all together so they thought he was worthy of an award.
DeleteI know it's going to seem like I'm arguing everything; but if they thought he was a stupid kid why would they invite him to give a speech?
DeleteI wonder why or if they ever realized that they have power too. They might even have had more power over the white people. I wonder what scared them so much about the white people. Was it what they thought that the white people could do to them?
DeleteThe point is for everyone to be equal. The black people might have heard storys and could have felt uncomfortable because of the way white people were treating them. thats why they were so scared.
DeleteI don't think the narrator was necessarily scared in the story; just nervous, and not for the same reasons as everybody else.
DeleteRacial Discrimination was a huge part as well because the narrator earned a scholarship to the state college for negros. The colleges in that time were not for both races but rather separated into groups of negros and whites.
ReplyDeleteI think the battle being fought in the story is not only physical but it's also emotional. I think it also symbolizes the tension between the black and the whites back in that time.
ReplyDeleteIn Battle Royale, the battle being fought is racism. During the battle the white men in the crowd were yelling at the white kids to kill the black kids. This shows that racism was a major battle throughout the story. Also, even when the narrator was giving his speech people in the crowd were laughing and making fun of him. This shows how big of a role race played in this story.
ReplyDeleteNot just the white men but the kids fighting didn't want to lose to a black. When the narrator offered money for the white kid to pretend he lost, he still said no because losing to blacks would be disgraceful.
DeleteGood point. I also remember that some of the white kids would form a group and gang up on the black kids during the fight.
DeleteI didn't think of that before, but you're totally right. All the white kids would gang up on the narrator just because he was black. They didn't care that he was there to give a speech, only that he was black.
DeleteEven though the narrator was giving a speech, they saw him as a black kid so they treated him as one. They used his race as an excuse to mistreat him. They forced him to participate in the battle royal even though he was there for a speech.
DeleteTHis shows how people were racist and prejudice back then
ReplyDeleteWhat does?
Delete"Leggo, nigger! Leggo!" (Ellison, 273).
ReplyDeleteBut anybody could say that nowadays, how do you know that "everyone" as you put it, were "racist and prejudice"? Give me some examples please.
DeleteI agree that the battle is being fought not just for the purpose of boxing, but also as an opportunity for the narrorator to show that he should not be treated differently based on the color of his skin. He mentions how his grandparents were slaves and he is not ashamed of that. He goes on further and talks about his grandfather and how he died and how much he meant to him and influenced him, so I believe he is also fighting for his grandfather as well.
ReplyDeleteThe battle in this story is a fight for equality between different races. Since the narrator isn't white, he had to participate in the battle royal instead of just giving his speech. This battle is a worthy one because nobody should be treated differently, especially because of skin color.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest battle in the Battle Royal story is racism. Even though the narrator goes to the hotel to give his speech, he is told that since he is already there "he might as well take part in the battle royal" which was part of the entertainment. If the narrator was an important white man, he would not be asked to be part of the entertainment, but to enjoy the entertainment. Even though he will eventually recieve a wonderful and generous award, the rich town's people still make the narrator take part in a humiliating event. Of course, the rich, white people are going to win the battle, and the narrator will lose, just because of how black people were viewed at that time. This battle is the most worthy to be fought because everyone deserves equality, and by not retaliating against the white people, the narrator proves to be just as dignified and worthy of the award as a white person. Another battle is gender, because the woman was mistreated, but that is not the main battle in the story, so it is less worthy to be fought.
ReplyDeleteThough it is not the main battle, it is still a worthy thing to fight about because it was an equally important conflict in that time.
DeleteI agree that the biggest fight in the story is the fight for equality between blacks and whites. Since the narragtor wasn't white, he had to take part of the entertainment or the battle royal. Do you think that all of the black people participating in the battle royal were as ashamed as the narrator?
DeleteI wonder; did the woman walk out there fully aware of what was about to happen to her or was it spur of the moment? Am I the only one confused about that?
DeleteI think she could have guessed but wouldn't have know if it would happen or not. But she was also supposed to go out whether she wanted to or not.
DeleteI have absolutetly no idea, that part was really weird. Plus, why did they have a lady dancing in the first place?
DeleteI am SO happy I wasn't alive back then. I know it wasn't a big chunk of the story or anything; but that's probably not the best decision someone could make.
DeleteI think the main battle of this whole story was internal. I think it was mainly about the narrator trying to be true to his grandfather's words. "Live with your head in the lion's mouth" & the narrator almost did. It shows that he will fight through whatever bump in the road that occurs. He obviously worked very hard at school & he wanted white people to see him differently, like most black people. It shows how truly horrible white men where to black men back then which was another battle. A battle to show white men that black men were as good as them, even if they have a different skin color.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think even though the narrator worked hard at school and studied, but the white men just viewed him as a black boy and judged him by his skin color, and not by what really matters. I think that the narrator lived everyday remembering his grandfather's words and taking them to heart. He wanted to prove the white men wrong and show that a black boy can succeed in life and nor be judged by his skin color.
DeleteI agree also. Everyday the narrator would deal with his grandfather's words inside his head, and his whole life he tried to stay true to those words. Those kinds of battles are some of the hardest to fight. He followed those words to show how black men can succeed, and even if the white men were rude to him while he gave his speech, he still gave it, and still did something with his life that not many other black men at that could say that they did.
DeleteYeah, he was really living with his grandfather's words everyday. Why do you think he was so ashamed of himself even though he helped the blacks fight for equality?
DeleteThe battles being fought in Battle Royal were both internal and external. Internal being that narrator's was constantly at war with his grandfather, in his mind of course, always thinking about what he had said on his deathbed and what it had meant. Also the fact that he wasn't really listened to or taken seriously with his speech and that can be very irritating. The external battles was the actual Battle Royal itself, giving and receiving the bashes left and right. Not even knowing who your hurting. The person who is most likely to succeed in the battle is someone who is confident like Tatlock was, he was confident that he could win and he did. The person who is likely to fail is the person who doubts himself and panics, being the person who fainted before the fight even started. The battle that is most worthy to be fought is the one which by accomplishing will help you in the long run rather than that one moment.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think of that before, but one of the biggest battles is how the narrator is at war with his grandfather's dying words, you're right.
Deletei always thought the battle was mostly on racism but your right
DeleteThere are several battles being fought. To begin with the physical and literal battle, that is the narrator in the boxing ring fighting other men and boys. He speaks of the pain and the battle "And I lay there, hazily watching a dark red spot of my own blood shaping itself into a butterfly" (Ralph Ellison 272). This physical battle ties into the racial battle. Throughout the story we hear white people making fun of the black people, calling them deroggitory names, and watching their pain for amusment. The racial battle is very important in which neither white nor black people should win but they should be equal. The physical battle is not as important but does hold together the racial battle.
ReplyDeleteWell, from the way that I interpret it, this story isn't just about the fighting. The narrator doesn't try to prove equality by winning and subtley saying that blacks can be as equal as whites, but instead, he utilizes his speech to try and tell everyone about how equality and social responsibility can benefit everyone.
ReplyDeleteBut when he said, "Social Equality" (Ellison 275) it was on accident because the men were messing him up and making him repeat and make mistakes.
DeleteAlso as soon as he said "Social Equality" (Ellison 275) by accident everybody paid attention in that instant
DeleteYeah, after he metioned "Social Equality"(Ellison 275) they began to pay attention to him and they even began to mock him.
DeleteWell, they were mocking him which lead to him saying that on accident.
DeleteThis story is about the actual boxing and the racial stuff.the battle will be won by the white people,but the black people will win soon.The racism is a huge battle that should be worried about and the boxing is the more unimportant battle
ReplyDeleteIn Batte Royale, the main character fights in many battles with only one of them being physical. His other battles were racism and how prejudiced all the white men were. During the physical battle they were all going against the narrator because they didn't want to lose to a black. This symbolizes the racism and the way whites reacted when they were around black people. Another thing was during his speech all the whites were very disrespectful by mocking him, laughing, and so on.
ReplyDeleteI think that the battle between the narrator and himself is the most important. He talks of his Granfathers last words and the lingering guilt inside of him. It seems that through the story he fights himself. He tries to be the obedient and the black person white people want him to be and goes against his grandfathers words.
ReplyDeleteAllison - Guilt of what? Also, does the grandfather want him to be obedient? Everyone - re-read that passage and answer this question: What does the grandfather want out of his grandson? In other words, what exactly is his advice?
DeleteI think I got a little confused and what really happened is he takes his grandfathers advice in which he is exactly what white people want him to be and he is completely obedient. Now that I think about it he might not feel guilty at all. If anything, it would be that he is following his grandfathers advice when his parents told him to forget it.
DeleteDoes anyone know what it meant when it said "To Whom It May Concern, Keep This Nigger-Boy Running" (Ellison 276)
ReplyDeleteI was confused about that too
DeleteYeah I was confused about that too
DeleteDoesn't it mean that the scholarship was to help the black continue on with his dream?
Deletei think it means make sure the black kid never gives up
Deletemaybe since that does make sense
DeleteBut the quote was during his dream with his grandfather at the circus, which makes it even more confusing.
DeleteThere was a scholarship?
DeleteYes. It was included with the suitcase.
DeleteYeah the circus had nothing to do with anything unless it was some type of symblozation that i missed
DeleteMaybe it means like he shouldn't give up on himself or something?
DeleteThis one is important. Don't let this thread turn to dust. Keep at it. This might be the most important line in the entire story. (Maybe even the entire novel that follows...)
DeleteAlso Very True
Deletethe circus could mean humiliation so still continue if you are in humiliation
DeleteI think that it means for him to continue on with his dreams and to never stop. That is why the quote has in it "keep this nigger-boy running" which to me it says keep him on his feet and to never give up.
DeleteI think it means that whoever has read it should try to keep the narrator working and studying so he can one day prove that blacks and whites are both eequal.
DeleteYeah; I think someone said it's to keep him going. I don't know if it's that he shouldn't give up; I just think it's supposed to keep him going.
DeleteI agree. I think that it's saying that he "needs to keep running" which is a figurative way of saying that he needs to keep progressing the 'fight' for equality or help gain more equality.
DeleteI think boxing was just a way to prove the show the racism. The main point of this story was racism. The way the white people treated the black people is terible.How they mocked them and laughed at them and also took plesure in there pain is unexeptable. There was only one physical fight that made an impact but what made the most impact was how predjudice all the white people were.
ReplyDeleteWould anyone like to chime in on just how the grandfather's advice plays into this idea of figurative battles being fought by the narrator? Be specific.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because in the beginning, before the grandfather died, he said "Son, after I'm gone I want you to keep yo the good fight." That is something that kept the narrator going through his fights because he wanted to make his grandfather proud.
Delete*up
Deletebut he said it was a curse too
DeleteThe grandfather said that he wanted him to "keep up the good fight" which means that he wants the narrator to keep fighting for the blacks and gain equality between blacks and whites. The fight was a figurative way of saying fight for our equality.
DeleteI don't think the figurative battle would mean the exact same things to him without his grandfather's advice.
DeleteI meanhe probably wouldn't be killing them with kindness or going along with what they were telling him to do for the same reasons without his grandfather's advice. Maybe without it, he'd only oblige because he was afraid.
DeleteYeah, I agree because without his grandfather's advice, he wouldn't even really understand that he should fight for equality. He might be scared, like how you put it. He might not feel like this is something worth fighting for because he may have gotten used to being treated less than whites that he actually felt as if it was a way of life. Like he had to live being less than white people.
DeleteHis grandfather's advice might be the most important part of the story, because without it ringing in is head 24/7; a lot of things like that wouldn't have been the same.
DeleteIn Batte Royale, the main character fights in many battles but only one being physical.During the physical battle they were all going against the narrator because they didn't want to lose to a black. His other battles were based off racism. Also, some battles showed how white men were prejedice against blacks. Another thing was during his speech all the whites were very disrespectful by mocking him, laughing, and bieng racist.
ReplyDeleteI agree your point of view. He was demolished emotionally but still had the strength to move on.
DeleteIn the story "Battle Royal" there was a negro with a bunch of white boxers and white men. The battles that were fought were in the boxing ring were more than just blood and sweat. The other battles were all inside the black boxers head. He felt that he was being taken over by the white boxers and fought more with a stragety to keep him alive instead of run in and go full force. The white rich men abused him and had runned him down so the white boxer would have a greater advantage. After that he was giving his speech and was rudely interrupted, harassed, and abused verbally. He was excited about his prize for delivering the speech. He felt a great accomplishment after that scholarship for negroes. It gives him a motivation with the foundation of his grandfathers last minute words.
ReplyDeleteThe whites had the police protecting their rights; even if their rights were really tiny and insignficant. People like Rosa Parks were jailed for sitting in the front of a bus. Things like that are probably what scared them.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but on the other hand, Roas Parks getting arrested while fighting for equal rights could have been inspiration to others to fight for what they believe in. She could have been motivation to take action and fight for their rights.
DeleteI think it was, because she was one of the first people to do something like that.
DeleteDoes anybody know if this story is fiction or non-fiction?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that the story is fiction, but some of the concepts and events that happened could have happened.
DeleteI think that there are a few battles being fought in the story. The first and most obvious would be the physical battle in the boxing ring. The White men have the young Black men in the ring and really fighting until they can't fight anymore, on top of that they are all blindfolded. Another battle would be the coins on the electric carpet. The young men fought over coins on an electric carpet and later found out that the most valuable coins were just fake advertisement tokens for automobiles. Lastly, another battle, which is an internal conflict apart from the other two, would be the narrator's grandfather's curse. His grandfather's last words utterly confused him and his family because he was always an old and quiet man and turns out that he was apparently a traitor or spy of some sort.
ReplyDelete